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View Full Version : FORGE BOV Spring Rates - Recommendations when running a Piggyback ECU (Yellow vs Blue



shagghie
06-23-2013, 07:59 PM
So I was all set to replace my yellow spring with the green one this afternoon. Low and behold, Forge shipped the BOV with the yellow spring already installed, and an extra BLUE one in the box. So I've been running the Yellow all along already without issue, but now after recently running the MM ECM unit, I feel like I might be leaking boost, so was going to go with a firmer spring. I did some initial research here and on the Dart forums, but didn't see any definitive posts on whether to go with the Yellow or the Blue spring when running a Piggyback ECM...

Forge states actual spring application rates of:
Green: 0.3-1.03 bar
Yellow: 1:03 to 1:58 Bar
Blue: 1:58 to 2:06 Bar
Red: from 2:06 Bar

but that doesn't equate to, say, the max boost your engine is pushing..
From here (http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0007&product=FMDVSU110) we see that:

Green - 6-8 PSI
Yellow - 10-12 PSI
Blue - 14-16 PSI
Red - 18-20 PSI
The quoted spring pressure (Psi) relates to the un-assisted clamping force of the spring and should NOT be taken as an equivalent to boost pressure when determining suitability. Once a valve is fitted to a car it is subjected to various pressures that act upon the diaphragm or piston to aid its respective ability to seal or hold boost. An example of this, would be when using a FMCL007P valve on a 1.8T engine as found in the TT 225hp. The boost pressure on a "chipped" car can peak at 26psi. The recommended spring would be the Green or Yellow (6-8 PSI, 10-12 PSI, respectively)"
[/B]
----8<-----8<
Is anyone here running the blue spring with their piggyback set up? Or should I just stick with the Yellow to play it safe...
Going to repost this as a separate thread....


EDIT: A note from Sean of Forge USA in an email I got awhile back SEEMS to answer the question:
"The valve should have a yellow spring in it and that will work great for you at stock and with software."

"assuming 'with software' means a chipped car. But then why do they also ship the blue spring with the dump valve at all?

DS Ocampo
06-25-2013, 07:16 AM
As soon as I got mine I switched it out but then again I'm running about every mod I could find... On the stock gauge it dumps hard at 12 .. Ill switch it out and see what happens.. Oh Shagghie you deff need to get that poly urethane kit.. Wow what a great feel took out all that slosh in the shifter when you tap the throttle and the 4" of engine roll if you've ever noticed that.. Doesn't really vibrate me to death and feels good when driving or at idle.. With the 30.00 I spent.. Pm if you need the link .. It's on here under rear mount thread

BigDaddySRT
06-25-2013, 08:17 AM
The Wastegate Spring determines your Base Boost Pressure.

Don't forget... 1.0 bar = 14.5 psi

shagghie
06-26-2013, 02:09 PM
The Wastegate Spring determines your Base Boost Pressure.

Don't forget... 1.0 bar = 14.5 psi

If that's true, then these two tables (both from Forge) don't make sense, right?

Forge states actual spring application rates of:
Green: 0.3-1.03 bar
Yellow: 1:03 to 1:58 Bar
Blue: 1:58 to 2:06 Bar
Red: from 2:06 Bar
vs.
Green - 6-8 PSI
Yellow - 10-12 PSI
Blue - 14-16 PSI
Red - 18-20 PSI

Jjm4life
06-27-2013, 11:25 AM
1bar is 14.5psi. That table seems off

Returning my forge valve. Seem to have gotten a faulty one. Madness has been great to work with. Forge, not so much.

shagghie
06-27-2013, 12:06 PM
1bar is 14.5psi. That table seems off

Returning my forge valve. Seem to have gotten a faulty one. Madness has been great to work with. Forge, not so much.

Oh Noes!! what happened with / to it? What spring did they put in by default, yellow or blue?

BigDaddySRT
06-27-2013, 12:52 PM
If that's true, then these two tables (both from Forge) don't make sense, right?

Forge states actual spring application rates of:
Green: 0.3-1.03 bar
Yellow: 1:03 to 1:58 Bar
Blue: 1:58 to 2:06 Bar
Red: from 2:06 Bar
vs.
Green - 6-8 PSI
Yellow - 10-12 PSI
Blue - 14-16 PSI
Red - 18-20 PSI

I would lean more towards the PSI numbers you posted.

There is an Electronic Wastegate Control Solenoid on the ABARTH... if we didn't have that Solenoid, then the Wastegate would solely determine the Base Boost Pressure.

shagghie
06-27-2013, 12:58 PM
I would lean more towards the PSI numbers you posted.

There is an Electronic Wastegate Control Solenoid on the ABARTH... if we didn't have that Solenoid, then the Wastegate would solely determine the Base Boost Pressure.

I agree, the PSI numbers are copy/paste from Forge's site. The Bar numbers are copy/paste from someone else in EU supposedly quoting Forge's site. So I'd trust the PSI numbers more as well. Good catch, thank you for originally pointing out that they don't align. Does a firmer spring affect the timing of when the BOV breaks open too? Or just the duration for which it is open prior to closing again? Or?

Jjm4life
06-27-2013, 02:19 PM
Oh Noes!! what happened with / to it? What spring did they put in by default, yellow or blue?

just seems to be a bad valve. was throwing codes no matter what way it was installed. it shipped with the proper spring.

as for the stiffer spring question.. it affects at what psi the valve opens. shouldnt change time/duration

BigDaddySRT
06-28-2013, 07:58 AM
I agree, the PSI numbers are copy/paste from Forge's site. The Bar numbers are copy/paste from someone else in EU supposedly quoting Forge's site. So I'd trust the PSI numbers more as well. Good catch, thank you for originally pointing out that they don't align. Does a firmer spring affect the timing of when the BOV breaks open too? Or just the duration for which it is open prior to closing again? Or?

Since there is an Electronic Wastegate Control Solenoid the PCM is always going to monitor what's going on with Boost Response.

If we didn't have that Control Solenoid, the Wastegate Internal Spring would determine your Base Boost Pressure.

Applying Pre-Load (Shorten) to the Wastegate allows for better boost response in the Lower RPM.... but the Wastegate will always open at that Spring Rating.



The Stock Surge Valve/ Pop Off Valve on the side of the Turbine has it's own internal diaphragm and spring.

If you have an External/ Aftermarket BOV it will have it's own internal Diaphragm/ Piston/ Spring that is operated under Vacuum/ Boost.

BigDaddySRT
06-28-2013, 08:00 AM
just seems to be a bad valve. was throwing codes no matter what way it was installed. it shipped with the proper spring.

as for the stiffer spring question.. it affects at what psi the valve opens. shouldnt change time/duration

I wonder how much variation that Sensor will "accept" prior to kicking a CEL or going into Limp Mode?
(aka Boost Controller Install/ Wastegate/ Wastegate Bleed)

shagghie
06-28-2013, 11:21 AM
I wonder how much variation that Sensor will "accept" prior to kicking a CEL or going into Limp Mode?
(aka Boost Controller Install/ Wastegate/ Wastegate Bleed)

I've had the WGA 3 full turns beyond where I have it now, but didn't like the massive surge in power and backed it down a bit. But let me tell you, I was certain the car would have (should have???) gone into limp mode the way it was literally erupting with power/boost. 1st and 2nd were almost useless..hitting the rev limiter almost as soon as you've let the clutch all the way out...seconds after. I figured if the driver was going 'holy sweet baby jesus holy **** holy crap!' every single time he went through the gears, then the little 1.4L was probably saying the same thing to itself, so i backed if off out of sympathy.

onederer
06-28-2013, 06:36 PM
I had a Forge BOV in my 2002 WRX. They BOV itself is a beauty, but the function was sub-par.( My car sounded like an Elephant with congestion trying to sneeze while drinking Soup.). After swapping springs and installing multiple shim sizes. Forge finally issued an exchange for a new one. Only to have the same issue. I gave up on aftermarket BOVs after that. I also turned 30 at that time...so, I like to think that I just grew out of that phase. :)

proteK
05-28-2015, 06:36 PM
Sorry to res an old thread but it seems like this would be the best place to post it.

I installed the Forge Atmospheric BOV today and I feel like the car is over boosting a little bit, and honestly it feels slower, I was expecting something more.

The car is all stock, but it had the red spring in it when I bought it, would it be a good idea to switch to the green?

Thanks for any help!

SQUADRA CORSE
06-02-2015, 01:27 PM
Hello Everyone!

I have been running on the "blue" spring from Forge and so far I have no issues with it at this point after several attempts of adjusting the linkage. (using the standard recommendation of adjustment brings the engines into failsage mode) So far, my best adjustment is to position the linkage hole with the pivot pin only one turn tight from the pivot pin's center point. You do not need too much pre-tensioning mainly due to the nature of the "blue" spring's tension rate. I have been running on a tuned ECU by Torx Motorsport from Washington, and so far this combo, for my main purpose of taking my Abarth to the track has proved well. The Torx stage 1 tune boosts to 25 psi.

CFAQ
06-02-2015, 03:40 PM
me I running the blue one on BOV and yellow on Wastegate Forge


Valve Spring color coding

Green - 5-15 PSI

Yellow - 15-23 PSI

Blue - 23-30 PSI

Red - 30 + PSI

http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0007&product=FMDVTUN



So I was all set to replace my yellow spring with the green one this afternoon. Low and behold, Forge shipped the BOV with the yellow spring already installed, and an extra BLUE one in the box. So I've been running the Yellow all along already without issue, but now after recently running the MM ECM unit, I feel like I might be leaking boost, so was going to go with a firmer spring. I did some initial research here and on the Dart forums, but didn't see any definitive posts on whether to go with the Yellow or the Blue spring when running a Piggyback ECM...

Forge states actual spring application rates of:
Green: 0.3-1.03 bar
Yellow: 1:03 to 1:58 Bar
Blue: 1:58 to 2:06 Bar
Red: from 2:06 Bar

but that doesn't equate to, say, the max boost your engine is pushing..
From here (http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0007&product=FMDVSU110) we see that:

Green - 6-8 PSI
Yellow - 10-12 PSI
Blue - 14-16 PSI
Red - 18-20 PSI
The quoted spring pressure (Psi) relates to the un-assisted clamping force of the spring and should NOT be taken as an equivalent to boost pressure when determining suitability. Once a valve is fitted to a car it is subjected to various pressures that act upon the diaphragm or piston to aid its respective ability to seal or hold boost. An example of this, would be when using a FMCL007P valve on a 1.8T engine as found in the TT 225hp. The boost pressure on a "chipped" car can peak at 26psi. The recommended spring would be the Green or Yellow (6-8 PSI, 10-12 PSI, respectively)"
[/B]
----8<-----8<
Is anyone here running the blue spring with their piggyback set up? Or should I just stick with the Yellow to play it safe...
Going to repost this as a separate thread....


EDIT: A note from Sean of Forge USA in an email I got awhile back SEEMS to answer the question:
"The valve should have a yellow spring in it and that will work great for you at stock and with software."

"assuming 'with software' means a chipped car. But then why do they also ship the blue spring with the dump valve at all?