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Kurumi
06-21-2013, 11:59 PM
I am planning on getting a custom downpipe made (in lieu of the TMC MotorSports one; high shipping cost and whatnot). I am in contact with a local fabricator and will have a prototype made up. If I can get a solid amount of buyers, (say 10+), I can get the price close to TMC's group buy cost.

Please post if you are interested in having one made. I asked and he can make one without a cat or with a 100/200/400 cel cat.

GoFiatGo!
06-22-2013, 12:10 AM
Why not go through ATP Turbo?

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-FIAT-001&Category_Code=FIAT
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-FIAT-002&Category_Code=FIAT

DS Ocampo
06-22-2013, 03:58 AM
One will be coming out sometime soon no need for that unless you really want to do it... Look at my list below :).. Can't say anything right now but it's cheaper than what's out there and it's great quality and you'll get good results better than what's out on the market now :)... But your call

Kurumi
06-22-2013, 08:01 AM
Only reason I mention it is that the ATP is 3" and I didn't want to have any issues with it vs running a 2.5". As far as the One, I might look into that. Is there a post about that?

DS Ocampo
06-22-2013, 09:01 AM
Can't say much now but as you see I have a 2.25 catless DP.. Sounds very mean.. And within budget .. Yes the 3" is way too much and you lose on torque.. But this one is great you get small gains ill post a dyno when I get home ... As of yet no cells have been reported.. Should be coming out on the market sometime soon I hear.. Sorry sworn to secrecy..

deathshead
06-22-2013, 06:25 PM
A new downpipe can be had for under $250 bucks, LOTS of vendors to pick from, and they all do the same thing.

What the community NEEDS is a better flowing MIDPIPE!!!!

I don't understand why every vendor keeps ignoring this huge bottleneck in the system.

Currently stateside there are zero vendors making a good flowing mid pipe, the stock unit has a press bent bend that
Is tiny, its just a simple straight pipe with a 90degree bend and flex joint.

Adding the tmc catless downpipe made a tremendous difference in performance on my car but with that stock mid pipe
Its still extremely restricted.

I also suspect that restrictive bend is causing that 3k rpm cackle-rasp as well.

Kurumi
06-22-2013, 06:39 PM
I'll take to my guy to see about making a midpipe. I'll get back to everyone.

MAZ
06-24-2013, 09:16 AM
I'll take to my guy to see about making a midpipe. I'll get back to everyone.
I'd expect that you would get a good amount of interest on the mid pipe. People were interested back during the TMC group buy, but the shipping was the issue.

Kurumi
06-25-2013, 04:51 PM
Alright everyone, I should have something drawn up during the weekend of July 4th. I just need to know if the DP we have now is 2.5" and going back is 2.5" as well or is the midpipe doing the conversion from 2.5 to 2.25.

dylansi
06-25-2013, 07:39 PM
I dont understand why so many people would be interested or are "waiting" for a midpipe made by one of the vendors. Most exhaust shops can have this done within an hour and probably a quarter of the price. I was quoted 300-350 for downpipe the whole way back in 3" with mandrel bends.

shagghie
06-25-2013, 07:45 PM
I dont understand why so many people would be interested or are "waiting" for a midpipe made by one of the vendors. Most exhaust shops can have this done within an hour and probably a quarter of the price. I was quoted 300-350 for downpipe the whole way back in 3" with mandrel bends.

Da Kine!

dylansi
06-25-2013, 07:46 PM
Alright everyone, I should have something drawn up during the weekend of July 4th. I just need to know if the DP we have now is 2.5" and going back is 2.5" as well or is the midpipe doing the conversion from 2.5 to 2.25.

The midpipe shrinks down to either 2.25" or 2" I cant remember what we determined at the shop. But it is def. smaller.

If you want a good cat from what I was reading (was emailing one of the compnay reps) I would consider this: http://www.andysautosport.com/fiat/2011_9999_500/performance/exhaust/catalytic_converters/acat/acat00000141.html

My plan was to run that in the midpipe section adding the down stream o2 sensor after it. I got stuck trying to find an 02 extention harness. I had found a company that makes them, emailed them but didnt get a repsonse back.

shagghie
06-25-2013, 07:52 PM
The midpipe shrinks down to either 2.25" or 2" I cant remember what we determined at the shop. But it is def. smaller.

If you want a good cat form what I was reading (was emailing one of the compnay reps) I would consider this: http://www.andysautosport.com/fiat/2011_9999_500/performance/exhaust/catalytic_converters/acat/acat00000141.html

My plan was to run that in the midpipe section adding the down stream o2 sensor after it. I got stuck trying to find an 02 extention harness. I had found a company that makes them, emailed them but didnt get a repsonse back.

1.75" at the press-bend is the smallest diameter choke point...crazy. What company did you find an extension harness at? I was looking at running a Mil.Spec 200cell, also in the mid pipe, but gave up on finding a harness. Was also going to wrap the DP/mid pipe to help with temp tolerances at the sensor.

DS Ocampo
06-25-2013, 07:52 PM
Did that the first time cat back was 200.... B&M muffler in Avondale az ..

Crossfirecat
06-25-2013, 07:58 PM
Supersprint already has what we need for the NA Abarth. The problem is, pricing is over a grand from turbo to tips, and then there is the fact that none of Supersprint's NA resellers carry the product as of yet. There are two in the US that currently offer the axel back kits, but anything else is Special Order and shipping is outrageous!
So more than likely, the best bet is going to a local shop that will do full mandrel bends and get it custom made.
Or we could start begging Exhaust Depot to make a kit like they did for the SRT4's. Probably the best flowing and realistically priced kit that was ever offered!
There is really no need to go beyond 2.5" diameter until your knocking on the door of the 300whp mark! Any larger and you'll probably lose velocity as well as torque.

dylansi
06-25-2013, 07:59 PM
1.75" at the press-bend is the smallest diameter choke point...crazy. What company did you find an extension harness at? I was looking at running a Mil.Spec 200cell, also in the mid pipe, but gave up on finding a harness. Was also going to wrap the DP/mid pipe to help with temp tolerances at the sensor.

I looked at the Mil.Spec and wasnt impressed, although i have heard they make great products. The one mentioned above seems to be super promising, not only with the flow design but also it works to reduce the exhaust noise levels. Hopefully this will reduce rasp.and/or increased noise levels from increased flow and loss of stock cat.

o2 harness company I emailed, I havent tried to call them yet, maybe you'll have better luck. Let me know.
http://www.casperselectronics.com/store2/

Kurumi
06-25-2013, 08:01 PM
I am planning on getting a new exhaust anyway so ill ask about making it into two pieces (mid pipe and axle back). I'll have him make it so that it bolts right up to the factory axle back.

dylansi
06-25-2013, 08:55 PM
I am planning on getting a new exhaust anyway so ill ask about making it into two pieces (mid pipe and axle back). I'll have him make it so that it bolts right up to the factory axle back.

I would have them make it to go the whole way back either keeping it a dual exit while eliminating that restrictive "T" and converting it to a "Y" OR what I plan on doing is have it exit single on the drivers side exit, either keeping it a raw tip or adding a tip to the end. At that point you could just replace your stock difusser with a Turbo model's diffuser. All done in 2.5" mandrel bent pipe with a single exit gives a great unrestricted route for the exhaust, eliminating the "T" or "Y" needed to run the duals.
I certainly would not bolt a custom midpipe up to that stock axle back with the "T" in it.
Just my .02 cents

Ryephile
06-25-2013, 10:59 PM
Those ACAT kitty's look legit. I'll probably use one when i whip up my own exhaust for the car.

dylansi
06-25-2013, 11:49 PM
I know right? I was emailing a guy named Jeff there but I havent recieved an correspondence back in almost a week now. He was going to tell me which cat would be the best for our application. He wanted to know stock motor info and any mods now or plans for mods...now that I am thinking I will email him back again. Just need to work out the o2 sensor extension and then let the cutting and welding begin...

deathshead
06-26-2013, 09:43 AM
I know right? I was emailing a guy named Jeff there but I havent recieved an correspondence back in almost a week now. He was going to tell me which cat would be the best for our application. He wanted to know stock motor info and any mods now or plans for mods...now that I am thinking I will email him back again. Just need to work out the o2 sensor extension and then let the cutting and welding begin...


I havent had too much time to get under my car with being sick and whatnot the past 2 weeks but
we need to figure out if we have a industry standard 4 wire 02 sensor harness or some funky Fiat-only connector. This will make things MUCH easier if its a standard type connector and means a off the shelf unit.

As far as finding a exhaust shop do do the work on the downpipe.
I live in the sticks and the car is my daily commuter.
I havent been able to find a decent shop who even welds with decent stainless wire who dosent want less than
$500 to build a stupid $180 pipe..

Abarth Five O
06-26-2013, 10:12 PM
New DP alternative offered by Madness: http://500madness.com/500madness/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=115&product_id=1956
Hope they also offer a solid CEL solution as well as mid pipe w/ resonator solution for owners who also want to use it for the street.

500MADNESS.com
06-26-2013, 10:50 PM
New DP alternative offered by Madness: http://500madness.com/500madness/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=115&product_id=1956
Hope they also offer a solid CEL solution as well as mid pipe w/ resonator solution for owners who also want to use it for the street.

Thanks for the mention!

We have been making them in house for our walk ins and also using them on our own cars for about a month now and are finally starting to catch up with pre orders.

The item is now in production and we are starting to fill pre orders this week. We have some additional options we are working on that we hope to offer in the near future as we get caught up with our current projects.

GoFiatGo!
06-26-2013, 11:09 PM
Thanks for the mention!

We have been making them in house for our walk ins and also using them on our own cars for about a month now and are finally starting to catch up with pre orders.



Great looking product!
Please be careful if you are installing them in house as there are some serious penalties if your caught removing the catalytic converter.

Ryephile
06-26-2013, 11:36 PM
Thanks for the mention!

We have been making them in house for our walk ins and also using them on our own cars for about a month now and are finally starting to catch up with pre orders.

The item is now in production and we are starting to fill pre orders this week. We have some additional options we are working on that we hope to offer in the near future as we get caught up with our current projects.

Consider adding in an ACAT catalytic converter, and making the factory mid-pipe flange modular [so I can use my own mid-pipe] and you'll capture all the marketplace that don't want to smell like gross. Cat-free is not an option for me, both olfactory and philosophically.

deathshead
06-27-2013, 08:53 AM
100 Cell cat in a good flowing Midpipe + 02 extension harness.

Ryephile, are you familliar with the o2 sensor connectors?
do they look industry "standard" to you?

MAZ
06-27-2013, 09:38 AM
I havent been able to find a decent shop who even welds with decent stainless wire who dosent want less than
$500 to build a stupid $180 pipe..
x2 any quality fabricator will charge you an arm and leg for a quality one off custom pipe. It may take him a day to build the first one and get it to fit just right. After he has the bends spec'd, then he'll be able to crank out pipes for cheaper.. I'd say 80-90% of the cost of the first pipe will be labor not material.

Ryephile
06-27-2013, 10:13 AM
100 Cell cat in a good flowing Midpipe + 02 extension harness.

Ryephile, are you familliar with the o2 sensor connectors?
do they look industry "standard" to you?

To be honest, the mid-pipe is not where I'd put the cat. You won't get quick [or any] light-off depending on driving circumstances. The down-pipe is the appropriate location for the cat.

I can't say I have much experience with O2 extensions mainly because moving the cats that much is something I've never needed to do. I'd just make sure they have seals on them to keep water out of the contacts.

deathshead
06-27-2013, 12:59 PM
To be honest, the mid-pipe is not where I'd put the cat. You won't get quick [or any] light-off depending on driving circumstances. The down-pipe is the appropriate location for the cat.

I can't say I have much experience with O2 extensions mainly because moving the cats that much is something I've never needed to do. I'd just make sure they have seals on them to keep water out of the contacts.


I hear ya, I was thinking more for sound - passing visual and cutting down just a little
bit on smell, just a little bit!, lol

My idea came about after seeing the assetto corse cars, but their cats are WAY back right before the rear axle, Many of the Rally cars even further back.

deathshead
06-27-2013, 01:03 PM
Or like this GTR midpipe. :)
I just need 1 half, it almost looks like it would fit lol

http://synapseengineering.pinnaclecart.com/images/products/preview/exh0003.002.jpg

shagghie
06-27-2013, 01:13 PM
Or like this GTR midpipe. :)
I just need 1 half, it almost looks like it would fit lol

http://synapseengineering.pinnaclecart.com/images/products/preview/exh0003.002.jpg

just break that think in two like a wishbone on Thanksgiving! I'll take the bigger half! #GladiatorsVsMidpipes

Soooo does anyone know if exhaust shops would be any good at welding in a 200Cell into a catless DP (cutting out a same-size section and replacing with the cat), and can 'get it right' WRT bend angles such that it terminates at the right spot? If a Cat is $150, and labor was was $100 (too optimistic?), then still would come out cheaper than buying a catted DP from TMC...

BigDaddySRT
06-28-2013, 08:03 AM
Has anyone installed the TMC Catless Downpipes on a NA ABARTH and been able to stop the CEL from popping up due to Catalytic Inefficiency???

(Inquiring minds want to know.)

deathshead
06-28-2013, 08:24 AM
Has anyone installed the TMC Catless Downpipes on a NA ABARTH and been able to stop the CEL from popping up due to Catalytic Inefficiency???

(Inquiring minds want to know.)
we DO have a confirmed tmc catless dp owner running the Bigdaddies garage unit without
any issues.

dylansi
06-28-2013, 12:15 PM
just break that think in two like a wishbone on Thanksgiving! I'll take the bigger half! #GladiatorsVsMidpipes

Soooo does anyone know if exhaust shops would be any good at welding in a 200Cell into a catless DP (cutting out a same-size section and replacing with the cat), and can 'get it right' WRT bend angles such that it terminates at the right spot? If a Cat is $150, and labor was was $100 (too optimistic?), then still would come out cheaper than buying a catted DP from TMC...

The shop I went to said i would better off to buy a pre-fab downpipe as it would take a lot off work to make it right.

I titanium wrapped my exhaust from midpipe to flexpipe the other day. I have pics but havent uploaded them yet. Tried to get the o2 sensor connectors seperated without any luck. I had two oither guys working in the shop try and help me out also. Oh well, I figure someone on this forum has taken it apart so we can get some pictures and see if Casper Electronics makes an extension. Although it looks like it has a decent amount of extra slack that may just make it depending on how far down you add your cat. I may bite the bullet on the madness downpipe, since ATP doesnt have an ETA on theirs.

Still havent got an answer back from ACAT about their converter. Would like to add that right after the down pipe.

shagghie
06-28-2013, 12:38 PM
good stuff. The more I think about it, the more I think I want the Cat in the DP, if only to help pass visual here in Cali, and because of Ryephile's point about cat efficiency.

The shop I went to said i would better off to buy a pre-fab downpipe as it would take a lot off work to make it right.

I titanium wrapped my exhaust from midpipe to flexpipe the other day. I have pics but havent uploaded them yet. Tried to get the o2 sensor connectors seperated without any luck. I had two oither guys working in the shop try and help me out also. Oh well, I figure someone on this forum has taken it apart so we can get some pictures and see if Casper Electronics makes an extension. Although it looks like it has a decent amount of extra slack that may just make it depending on how far down you add your cat. I may bite the bullet on the madness downpipe, since ATP doesnt have an ETA on theirs.

Still havent got an answer back from ACAT about their converter. Would like to add that right after the down pipe.

dylansi
06-28-2013, 12:55 PM
good stuff. The more I think about it, the more I think I want the Cat in the DP, if only to help pass visual here in Cali, and because of Ryephile's point about cat efficiency.

Yes I wonder if wraping the downpipe to keep the heat in will work to keep the heat in for the cat to warm up enough?

GOT A RESPONSE FROM ACAT:

"Sorry for the delay, I have been out of the country.


I would suggest the 3" as that will have the most flow based on inlet/outlet along with the substrate itself. However, since the Fiat 500 is quite a small engine, the 2.5" will still make a difference and have plenty of flow. The 200HB will have the most impact on sound and the based on engine size the restriction will be minimal as the unit is capable of up to 5.9 liters. If you go with the 100HB it has almost twice the flow capacity, but since you are only running a 1.4L the 200HB should be fine and make little difference.


Is your O2 sensor in the converter or in the pipe next to the converter?


I have attached a .pdf of our catalog for you as well. Not sure how long of a unit your are looking for, but based on your engine size a 4" diameter unit should be good (and probably the only option based on space)."

Still no info on pricing or where else to buy one from besides from andysauto. Catalog has a ton of options hoping the 100HB is not the $500 one. Anyone who wants the catalog pdf send me a PM and I can email it to you. Will be out of the office for a few hours soon but I will get it to you today. Finally making progress...

shagghie
06-28-2013, 01:17 PM
nice progress! PM sent.

BigDaddySRT
06-28-2013, 04:36 PM
we DO have a confirmed tmc catless dp owner running the Bigdaddies garage unit without
any issues.

Do you have a link to the thread?

Do you know which version they bought?

GoFiatGo!
06-28-2013, 09:15 PM
Do you have a link to the thread?

Do you know which version they bought?

;)

shagghie
06-28-2013, 11:27 PM
;)

buy his ^^^ wink wink.

GoFiatGo!
06-29-2013, 12:53 AM
buy his ^^^ wink wink.

To be fair I did get a check engine light when running 93 with 15% ethanol content. With 91 no ethanol compared to 93 w/ ethanol I would see a huge difference in exhaust temperatures. The cooler temps would through a low heater bank code. So by sticking to strictly to 91 with the bigdaddiesgarage mini cat http://bigdaddiesgarage.com/mini-cat-cel-fix.html I could go forever with no CEL. I went a few months then put 93 in by habit... BAM! CEL.

BigDaddySRT, I'll share more information if you take me up on that walk on the beach :wink:

dylansi
06-29-2013, 01:09 AM
To be fair I did get a check engine light when running 93 with 15% ethanol content. With 91 no ethanol compared to 93 w/ ethanol I would see a huge difference in exhaust temperatures. The cooler temps would through a low heater bank code. So by sticking to strictly to 91 with the bigdaddiesgarage mini cat http://bigdaddiesgarage.com/mini-cat-cel-fix.html I could go forever with no CEL. I went a few months then put 93 in by habit... BAM! CEL.

BigDaddySRT, I'll share more information if you take me up on that walk on the beach :wink:

Did you try to wrap the DP with some exhaust wrap to hold in the heat?. I've wrapped midpipe to flex so far but didnt want to attempt the DP until I got another one.

GoFiatGo!
06-29-2013, 09:37 PM
Did you try to wrap the DP with some exhaust wrap to hold in the heat?. I've wrapped midpipe to flex so far but didnt want to attempt the DP until I got another one.

Personally no, Elirider did and had great results. It wasn't too big of a deal to run a lower octane and back the TMC module to 7/8 over 9.

BigDaddySRT
07-08-2013, 07:24 AM
To be fair I did get a check engine light when running 93 with 15% ethanol content. With 91 no ethanol compared to 93 w/ ethanol I would see a huge difference in exhaust temperatures. The cooler temps would through a low heater bank code. So by sticking to strictly to 91 with the bigdaddiesgarage mini cat http://bigdaddiesgarage.com/mini-cat-cel-fix.html I could go forever with no CEL. I went a few months then put 93 in by habit... BAM! CEL.

BigDaddySRT, I'll share more information if you take me up on that walk on the beach :wink:

Oh my... I've been out on vacation for a week... Where'd you offer a "walk on the beach"?


All I want to know is what works to get rid of the Catalytic Inefficiency CEL.

I don't have a Piggyback ECU, and I never plan to install one.

GoFiatGo!
07-10-2013, 11:46 AM
Oh my... I've been out on vacation for a week... Where'd you offer a "walk on the beach"?


All I want to know is what works to get rid of the Catalytic Inefficiency CEL.

I don't have a Piggyback ECU, and I never plan to install one.

The part I linked will remove the Catalytic Inefficiency code.