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View Full Version : Transmission syncros or something else? What's wrong?



ScorpionSkins.com
06-12-2013, 10:24 PM
I've seen this issue mentioned on the "Red" forum and was hoping to further discuss it here to see if anyone had found a solution (or was offered a proper explanation or fix from their local Studio).

I've noticed consistently when when driving my vehicle in Sport mode (shifting anywhere above 2.5K RPM) that I will grind the shifter every time when coming out of first and second gear. I've tried holding my foot aggressively down onto the clutch. I've tried shifting slower. I've tried playing around with the direction and pressure of my shift. All efforts have produced no constructive results.

I've tried bringing the vehicle to my dealership and they refused to acknowledge the problem, claiming they were unable to reproduce the issue and that I should just "enjoy the car". :apthy:

The fact is, at this point I'm getting increasingly irritated and don't feel like they're doing enough to help me out with this matter.

I've read of some owners on the "Red" forum having their dealership drain and refill the closed transmission fluid, having adjusted the shifter linkage and no longer experiencing the issue afterwards. My dealership refused to consider attempting this for me.

I'd like to know if I'm one of the few experiencing this, or if it is a common defect? It's very much affecting my enjoyment of the vehicle, as I can only shift at lower RPMs and with a significant delay between shifts to avoid experiencing the "teeth" vibrate through the shifter. At a stand still, I've noticed I can smoothly shift into 3rd, 4th, and 5th, but need to really press into first and second gear, as if something within the shifter console itself is pressing back and preventing a proper alignment/smooth engagement from occurring. The car only has 2500 miles on it. Are there any aftermarket solutions that minimize this occurrence?

I'd appreciate your opinions, or some suggestions from those of you who are more technically inclined. Thank you.

KKaWing
06-12-2013, 11:34 PM
Maybe look into a braided clutch line if it exists for the Fiat? I remember the 8th gen civic grind was fixed by a new master cylinder + other bits related to it. I've also seen reports of Gen-Coupes having their tranny crunchies fixed, or at least helped by a braided clutch line. Lastly try a new dealership? Peel and Maranello gets great reviews, but they are not the only ones around here.

RustyPaint
06-13-2013, 01:20 AM
Check your clutch and slave/master system. If there is any rotation in the transmission, it will prevent you from putting it into gear. On smooth flat ground, put your car in 1st, hold the clutch pedal, and rev up the motor. Any sort of forward movement indicates that your clutch is not fully disengaged.

GoFiatGo!
06-13-2013, 01:30 AM
Check your clutch and slave/master system. If there is any rotation in the transmission, it will prevent you from putting it into gear. On smooth flat ground, put your car in 1st, hold the clutch pedal, and rev up the motor. Any sort of forward movement indicates that your clutch is not fully disengaged.

Another nifty tricky in trying to decide between a master and slave cylinder is to put a clamp/vice grip on the line between the master and slave. If you have a solid pedal then you can rule out the master, if the pedal goes down then its an issue with the master. Though what your describing sounds like a syncro issue... Can you rev match and get into gear smoothly? You wouldn't be the first to have this issue.

BigDaddySRT
06-13-2013, 06:26 AM
I'd appreciate your opinions, or some suggestions from those of you who are more technically inclined. Thank you.

There is a "procedure" the Studio must follow with Chrysler.

Take the Lead Tech out for a ride and replicate the transmission problem.



The end result... they will find out that you need a new C510 Transmission.

BigDaddySRT
06-13-2013, 06:27 AM
Check your clutch and slave/master system. If there is any rotation in the transmission, it will prevent you from putting it into gear. On smooth flat ground, put your car in 1st, hold the clutch pedal, and rev up the motor. Any sort of forward movement indicates that your clutch is not fully disengaged.

It's not the Clutch Master... he only has the grinding issue with first and second gear.

He needs a new C510.

trevc
06-13-2013, 10:33 AM
I hate to hear of folks having issues like these and the dealer not wanting to help.
So far I have been very luck I guess - no gearbox issues here (apart from minor top cover leak).
Does sound like the gearbox needs looking at.
Once you finally find a dealer that will do the right thing and get it swapped under warranty have them put in a lighter flywheel and a Eurocompulsion clutch while they have it apart!

stratofortress
06-13-2013, 12:56 PM
Sorry to hear and can't be of much help as I'm relatively new to standard transmissions.

3500 miles and no issues here other than when I eff something up due to user error.

ScorpionSkins.com
06-13-2013, 08:45 PM
Thank you for all of your responses so far. I've booked an appointment with another dealership for this upcoming weekend and am hoping to have some more comprehensive answers. I will update this thread with the results, but would love to continue reading your additional opinions.

BigDaddySRT
06-14-2013, 09:44 AM
Thank you for all of your responses so far. I've booked an appointment with another dealership for this upcoming weekend and am hoping to have some more comprehensive answers. I will update this thread with the results, but would love to continue reading your additional opinions.

Be completely sure whatever Studio you're at actually input/ File the complaint against your VIN.

If you don't get this resolved... the transmission will just grenade internally and leave you stranded.

jguerdat
06-14-2013, 01:16 PM
If you don't get this resolved... the transmission will just grenade internally and leave you stranded.

That's a bit of an overstatement. Sure, anything can happen but grinding going into a gear is likely just going to get worse until you may need to double-clutch to get it into that gear.

BigDaddySRT
06-17-2013, 08:40 AM
That's a bit of an overstatement. Sure, anything can happen but grinding going into a gear is likely just going to get worse until you may need to double-clutch to get it into that gear.

You should never have to "double clutch" the C510.... you should never have any issue changing gears with the C510.

If you have any concerns with your C510, you need to notify your Studio.

DuckDodgers
06-17-2013, 04:39 PM
Amusing side note, my Studio had no problem getting the correct fluid and changing my transmission fluid (sealed, lifetime and all; what crap) at 1,200 miles.

jguerdat
06-17-2013, 06:30 PM
You should never have to "double clutch" the C510.... you should never have any issue changing gears with the C510.

If you have any concerns with your C510, you need to notify your Studio.

I agree with this completely. The issue I was talking about was the "grenading"...

ScorpionSkins.com
06-17-2013, 09:20 PM
Just offering an additional update to this thread... The second studio had a mechanic test drive the vehicle and they too claimed they were unable to reproduce the issue. The service manager there was kind enough to offer service on the vehicle (drain and refill, etc.), but he's asked for the specific dealership notes of an individual who has experienced the same issue and had it resolved. He too claimed the transmission fluid is a "lifetime" fluid.

To sum it up, I'm running out of options, and I'm certainly not imagining the issue. I've driven with friends that noticed I need to let the clutch sit in for a good 2-3 seconds between gear shifts to avoid any teeth grind coming in and out of gear.

I'm hoping to have my independent mechanic give the car a test drive so that I can get a second opinion.

If anyone has had this or a similar issue resolved by their Studio, please PM me, as your repair notes would be of great assistance in convincing a local Studio to proceed with a more thorough diagnosis. Thank you.

Crazy Otto
06-17-2013, 10:06 PM
Ask for a test ride in a new abarth see if the problem replicates. I think this has to do with the high clutch and almost too progressive engagement. Try seeing where the baulking point is for first. Put clutch all way down and try going into first. Then do same but this time dont dip clutch all way down, then keep incremental increases until the gate blocks engagement. I would guess that your will have just a little travel before cant get into gear.

Crazy Otto
06-17-2013, 10:08 PM
Also make sure you are all way to the floor when shifting. Sometimes this may mean centering left foot over pedal.

BigDaddySRT
06-18-2013, 07:05 AM
Just offering an additional update to this thread... The second studio had a mechanic test drive the vehicle and they too claimed they were unable to reproduce the issue. The service manager there was kind enough to offer service on the vehicle (drain and refill, etc.), but he's asked for the specific dealership notes of an individual who has experienced the same issue and had it resolved. He too claimed the transmission fluid is a "lifetime" fluid.

To sum it up, I'm running out of options, and I'm certainly not imagining the issue. I've driven with friends that noticed I need to let the clutch sit in for a good 2-3 seconds between gear shifts to avoid any teeth grind coming in and out of gear.

I feel for you... I had no issues with my Studio Warranting my C510.

There were three other ABARTHs along with mine in for various transmission issues.

BigDaddySRT
06-18-2013, 07:07 AM
Ask for a test ride in a new abarth see if the problem replicates. I think this has to do with the high clutch and almost too progressive engagement. Try seeing where the baulking point is for first. Put clutch all way down and try going into first. Then do same but this time dont dip clutch all way down, then keep incremental increases until the gate blocks engagement. I would guess that your will have just a little travel before cant get into gear.


It has nothing to do with the Clutch. If he had a Clutch Problem, it would scratch in every single gear with part load or high load.

MAZ
06-18-2013, 09:15 AM
Years ago (on a totally different car) I had an issue that sounded very similar to your described problem:
My '00 Audi (o1e 6sp trans) nearly always grinded getting into 1 & 2 gears, either up shifting or down shifting into those gears. The issue had gotten increasingly worse until I could not get into those gears at all. I also destroyed both gears 1 & 2 in the process. The issue with that particular trans was a defective 1 & 2 shift collars (slider), which now is a well documented issue with that particular transmission.
Do you find the symptoms getting worse? Is it becoming more difficult to engage those gears?
Definitely sounds like a syncro issue and not a hydraulic issue.
Best of luck

yukoncornelius
06-18-2013, 11:07 PM
Just offering an additional update to this thread... The second studio had a mechanic test drive the vehicle and they too claimed they were unable to reproduce the issue. The service manager there was kind enough to offer service on the vehicle (drain and refill, etc.), but he's asked for the specific dealership notes of an individual who has experienced the same issue and had it resolved. He too claimed the transmission fluid is a "lifetime" fluid.

To sum it up, I'm running out of options, and I'm certainly not imagining the issue. I've driven with friends that noticed I need to let the clutch sit in for a good 2-3 seconds between gear shifts to avoid any teeth grind coming in and out of gear.

I'm hoping to have my independent mechanic give the car a test drive so that I can get a second opinion.

If anyone has had this or a similar issue resolved by their Studio, please PM me, as your repair notes would be of great assistance in convincing a local Studio to proceed with a more thorough diagnosis. Thank you.
It's frustrating for me to read this....

Did you ride along with the mechanic? If not.. Why didn't you? When they said there was no issue did you say ok let's go for a drive and show them?

BigDaddySRT
06-19-2013, 07:39 AM
It's frustrating for me to read this....

Did you ride along with the mechanic? If not.. Why didn't you? When they said there was no issue did you say ok let's go for a drive and show them?

Exactly.

ScorpionSkins.com
06-19-2013, 10:00 PM
Also make sure you are all way to the floor when shifting. Sometimes this may mean centering left foot over pedal.

Always do. Even with clutch fully (and very firmly) held in, the results are the same.


I feel for you... I had no issues with my Studio Warranting my C510.

There were three other ABARTHs along with mine in for various transmission issues.

It would seem indicative that we're bound to have plenty of transmission issues with the brand?


Years ago (on a totally different car) I had an issue that sounded very similar to your described problem:
My '00 Audi (o1e 6sp trans) nearly always grinded getting into 1 & 2 gears, either up shifting or down shifting into those gears. The issue had gotten increasingly worse until I could not get into those gears at all. I also destroyed both gears 1 & 2 in the process. The issue with that particular trans was a defective 1 & 2 shift collars (slider), which now is a well documented issue with that particular transmission.
Do you find the symptoms getting worse? Is it becoming more difficult to engage those gears?
Definitely sounds like a syncro issue and not a hydraulic issue.
Best of luck

It is not becoming more difficult to engage the gears, but the symptoms have gotten worse. The transmission felt "buttery smooth" under any kind of load when I first bought the vehicle, now I've had to adapt my driving style to avoid the issue. On any given drive, I'm bound to grind (or scratch, if you will) anywhere between a couple to a dozen times based on the length of the journey.


It's frustrating for me to read this....

Did you ride along with the mechanic? If not.. Why didn't you? When they said there was no issue did you say ok let's go for a drive and show them?

The first dealership I visited allowed me to ride in the vehicle both times they tested it (first with a mechanic, and then with the shop manager). They did not test the vehicle for longer then a couple of minutes, and they did so on very calm (low speed) back roads near the dealership, which I believe may have contributed to their inability to recognize the issue. They admitted to me that they were unfamiliar with these vehicles... :cold:

The second dealership did not allow me in the vehicle with their mechanic, which I did not appreciate. When the mechanic got back, I was told they lifted the car, checked the shifter linkage, and saw nothing out of the ordinary. They offered to drain and refill if I could get scanned proof of another dealerships diagnosis and treatment of the issue, but they too claimed to not have experienced any issues on the test drive.

I am visiting a third dealership this upcoming week. This time, I will ask that I be allowed in the vehicle while testing and that they bring it on a higher speed road that will allow for considerable load.

Thank you all for your support thus far, I will update with my results by then...

CarlosOne
06-23-2013, 10:55 PM
Once the warranty runs out... $$$$$$$$

BigDaddySRT
06-24-2013, 08:55 AM
Once the warranty runs out... $$$$$$$$

Ummmmm.... Duh.... get over it.

MAZ
06-24-2013, 09:02 AM
Once the warranty runs out... $$$$$$$$
^That's pretty obvious and I'm sure that he is looking to have the issue fixed before 4yrs/50,000 miles.

Good luck with the repair, Honestly I would have probably have tried to stick with one studio and ride their ass until you get the proper attention. Keep us posted.

BigT
06-24-2013, 09:13 AM
Once the warranty runs out... $$$$$$$$ The troll is strong with this one

ScorpionSkins.com
06-24-2013, 01:20 PM
Thanks everyone, but so far I've not had complete confidence in either of the studios that I've been to. I will be returning to the Studio that sold me the car should I need to push this issue further. I'm trying the third as it comes well recommended. Appointment this Thursday...

Tweak
06-24-2013, 09:32 PM
The troll is strong with this one

He has since made an apology for these types of posts. Just a heads up.

BigDaddySRT
06-25-2013, 09:57 AM
He has since made an apology for these types of posts. Just a heads up.

Yeah... so... he's done absolutely nothing but bad mouth the FIAT Brand.

I am not going to forgive him, and I don't have to.


Now... back to C510 Transmission.

Guest
06-25-2013, 12:22 PM
Yeah... so... he's done absolutely nothing but bad mouth the FIAT Brand.

I am not going to forgive him, and I don't have to.


Now... back to C510 Transmission.

To be fair to him - you kinda seem a bit of a ermmm....well...you know!!

Just sayin like

Tweak
06-25-2013, 01:22 PM
Yeah... so... he's done absolutely nothing but bad mouth the FIAT Brand.

I am not going to forgive him, and I don't have to.


Now... back to C510 Transmission.

I understand that, just saying that he and Chris, the forum owner have spoken and he apologized and has been allowed to remain with an understanding he shouldn't have made such posts and won't do so in the future. Just thought this should be cleared up a little...back to the topic at hand.