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opiateESP
06-06-2013, 05:56 PM
Super stoked. Just got off the dyno (DynoJet).

138 HP and 150 ft/lbs to the wheels. Only mods are the delete and throttle body. Intake hasn't arrived yet. Going back when the intake arrives. I'll post the sheets when I get home.

Very VERY pleased.

Jjm4life
06-06-2013, 06:07 PM
Not bad at all.

DJ Sueno
06-06-2013, 07:05 PM
Nice numbers... It would have also been cool to see the results prior to the muffler delete... :smile:

opiateESP
06-06-2013, 07:31 PM
Yeah, you're right. I'm planning on pulling the throttle body and getting a run when I do the intake run.

FTY
06-06-2013, 10:20 PM
Yeah, you're right. I'm planning on pulling the throttle body and getting a run when I do the intake run.

Should have them by next week....BTW.

opiateESP
06-06-2013, 10:54 PM
Should have them by next week....BTW.

I'm looking forward to that!

Here's the best run. 4th gear pull.

6544

FTY
06-06-2013, 11:14 PM
I'm looking forward to that!

Here's the best run. 4th gear pull.

6544

Those are great numbers BTW!!

Jjm4life
06-07-2013, 03:21 AM
Why 4th gear? Thought with a 5 speed, third is the right gear

opiateESP
06-07-2013, 07:28 AM
Not really sure. I can ask for some 3rd gear pulls next time.

F1AT
06-07-2013, 08:28 AM
Why 4th gear? Thought with a 5 speed, third is the right gear

That is incorrect.
The correct gear is the gear that is closest to a 1:1 ratio.
Which in the case of my Sport's 5 speed manual boxes is 4th gear.
For the Abarth/ 500T technically 5th is even closer to 1:1 than 4th....

TRANSMISSION: C514 FIVE-SPEED MANUAL
Gear Ratios
1st 3.909
2nd 2.158
3rd 1.345
4th 0.974
5th 0.766
Reverse 3.818
Final-drive Ratio 3.733

And in the case of the 500T:

1st 3.909
2nd 2.238
3rd 1.520
4th 1.156
5th 0.872
Reverse 3.909
Final-drive Ratio 3.353

Jjm4life
06-07-2013, 11:14 AM
I was unsure of the gear ratios. I wonder if the are the same in the abarth.

opiateESP
06-07-2013, 11:32 AM
From what little I've seen, they are.

Gigante
06-07-2013, 01:34 PM
That is incorrect.
The correct gear is the gear that is closest to a 1:1 ratio.
Which in the case of my Sport's 5 speed manual boxes is 4th gear.
For the Abarth/ 500T technically 5th is even closer to 1:1 than 4th....

TRANSMISSION: C514 FIVE-SPEED MANUAL

And in the case of the 500T:

1st 3.909
2nd 2.238
3rd 1.520
4th 1.156
5th 0.872
Reverse 3.909
Final-drive Ratio 3.353

Personally, I know I would enjoy the gear ratios (1-5) and final drive from the auto trans. I know we would lose some top end but that would be okay with me.

Gear Ratios
1st 4.044
2nd 2.371
3rd 1.556
4th 1.159
5th 0.852
6th 0.672
Reverse 3.193
Final Drive Ratio 4.103

Gigante
06-07-2013, 01:36 PM
I'm looking forward to that!

Here's the best run. 4th gear pull.

6544

Nice... Thank you for sharing.

MAZ
06-07-2013, 01:39 PM
Everyone loves Dynojet numbers!
The Mustang dynos are the heartbreakers, usually 15-20% less than Dynojets.

opiateESP
06-07-2013, 01:50 PM
Everyone loves Dynojet numbers!
The Mustang dynos are the heartbreakers, usually 15-20% less than Dynojets.

Yup! Most of the Abarth/Fiat numbers I have seen have been off of DynoJet's and Dynapac's. Makes for a bit better comparison with others. I had to actually look harder for a DynoJet shop around here as there are WAY more Mustang Dyno shops. I'll hit up a mustang dyno as well at some point for comparison... I know it'll be lower.

2Cool
06-07-2013, 01:51 PM
I'm looking forward to that!

Here's the best run. 4th gear pull.

6544

Look how pig rich the car goes starting at 5500rpm. A nice 12:1 a/f all the way up to there, then it drops off the chart below 10:1. We really desperately need an ECU tune to actually reach the capability of these motors.

opiateESP
06-07-2013, 02:05 PM
Look how pig rich the car goes starting at 5500rpm. A nice 12:1 a/f all the way up to there, then it drops off the chart below 10:1. We really desperately need an ECU tune to actually reach the capability of these motors.

Yeah, that's the first thing we started talking about at the shop after the pulls... these things are begging for a good tune. They were surprised at the numbers that came out too though. They're primarily a Ford Mustang shop. As far as imports are concerned, they're used to kids arriving in Civics who are thinking big and only putting 100hp down to the floor.

dart1.4t
06-07-2013, 06:14 PM
Everyone loves Dynojet numbers!
The Mustang dynos are the heartbreakers, usually 15-20% less than Dynojets.

it would be nice to see superflow numbers. superflow is an eddy current dyno, it has a brake which give control over the rpm/s. part of true sae horsepower ratings, be it gross, net, or certified is that there is a testing procedure. it you don't follow the rpm/s seto out in the proceedure you can not advertise sae horsepower. without that you are just measuring incremental differences and the numbers are all but useless.. correcting with % from advertised oem horsepower may get close but it doesn't properly account for different types of losses. without knowing the rpm/s you can't know how inertia is actually changing the numbers because acceleration rate effects how much power is absobred by powertrain acceleration. acceleration changes with power on an inertia dyno so the lost power changes with rpm so multiplying the entire curve with a correction factor is anything but accurate.

on a side note, the sae started a new "certified" horsepower program. gm was the first to use it on the corvette and they power ratings went up 5hp or 1%. toyota also uses it and the power numbers went down by about 20 hp on and engine with less than half the power or just under 10%.... so turns out gm is more honest about power ratings than the japanese... good to know.

now if only i can find the actual sae testing procedures so i can tear apart after market advertisers and let people know where they might not be playing by the rules.

as far as what gear to use, old cars with rwd almost always had a 1:1 gear to use. the significance of that gear is there were no gears at all. you just locked the input shaft to the output shaft and the trans had fewer parts. this is why the 1:1 rule is out there, you don't have as much power loss. front wheel drives almost never have a gear like this. i think some did in the past but none that i can think of today because the power doesn't go through a counter shaft to an output shaft that's concentric to the input shaft. the closest gear on a 5 speed to 1:1 is generally 4th, on a 6 speed it may be 4th or 5th. on a 4 speed it's 4th. but you may actually have less power loss in the top gear than the 1:1 gear especially on an inertia dyno. by slowing down the engine acceleration you reduce the inertial losses of the crank shaft.

sfhpawel
06-07-2013, 06:24 PM
Thank you so much for sharing! Finally someone stepped up to the plate. I'm next ;p I just need to tweak mine up a little more. I'll pm you soon enough, I want to get that throttle body!

2Cool
06-07-2013, 08:15 PM
it would be nice to see superflow numbers. superflow is an eddy current dyno, it has a brake which give control over the rpm/s. part of true sae horsepower ratings, be it gross, net, or certified is that there is a testing procedure. it you don't follow the rpm/s seto out in the proceedure you can not advertise sae horsepower. without that you are just measuring incremental differences and the numbers are all but useless.. correcting with % from advertised oem horsepower may get close but it doesn't properly account for different types of losses. without knowing the rpm/s you can't know how inertia is actually changing the numbers because acceleration rate effects how much power is absobred by powertrain acceleration. acceleration changes with power on an inertia dyno so the lost power changes with rpm so multiplying the entire curve with a correction factor is anything but accurate.

Turbo and supercharged cars need a load applying dyno to get real numbers. All of the manufacturers offer load bearing dynos now though, so you can get it with a Dynojet, with the right options. My GT500 needed 60% load on a Superflow to hit peak numbers, free spinning read over 10% lower.

dart1.4t
06-07-2013, 08:40 PM
Turbo and supercharged cars need a load applying dyno to get real numbers. All of the manufacturers offer load bearing dynos now though, so you can get it with a Dynojet, with the right options. My GT500 needed 60% load on a Superflow to hit peak numbers, free spinning read over 10% lower.

exactly. dynos can be manipulated, and that load slows the acceleration rate and takes some inertia out of the equation as well as allows the turbo to keep pace with the engine changing speeds. tell me how much power you want to make and within reason a tricky dyno operator can make it say that. i've seen other shops do it and when i was working with my friend he would do it too, not to prove anything but when a customer comes in with an engine and dyno sheets he had built at another shop and it said some exagerated number because the air corrections were obviously falsified (and it was visable on the sheets to people that know dynos really well) my friend wasn't honest enough to tell the customer that the other shop ( who we did buisness with and wanted to keep a good relationship with) was full of ****. i didn't agree with that practice but but i didn't deal with the customers and just looked the other way, it's part of why i don't work with him now... .

i'm an advocate of drag strip testing. the mph at the end of the track is a good indicator of power for a particular car. it offers a strait forward consistent testing procedure. the math can vary for the hp conversion but comparing mph directly to others eliminates that as long as the air conditions are the same. you can do a hp calculation from 1/4 mile mph and apply weather corrections to that for comparing different tracks or different days.

Felnus
06-08-2013, 01:45 AM
Plus, drag strip runs are considerably cheaper and a lot more fun than strapping your car on a dyno.

opiateESP
06-08-2013, 12:30 PM
I can't wait to get to a drag strip.

BigDaddySRT
06-10-2013, 11:27 AM
Why hasn't anyone upgraded their 500T PCM Software to the ABARTH Software???

opiateESP
06-10-2013, 11:30 AM
Why hasn't anyone upgraded their 500T PCM Software to the ABARTH Software???

Because the VIN is hard coded to the ECU. You would need to purchase the ECU, BCU and one other piece from an abarth using it's VIN to make that happen. Better off waiting until tuning is available.

redred
06-10-2013, 11:31 AM
Why hasn't anyone upgraded their 500T PCM Software to the ABARTH Software???

How? By buying an Abarth ECU and having it installed? The ECU would have to be VIN matched and currently only the Fiat Studio can do that (and I would be shocked if they would be willing to)

EDIT: Yeah.... what he said above ^^^^

opiateESP
06-10-2013, 11:38 AM
How? By buying an Abarth ECU and having it installed? The ECU would have to be VIN matched and currently only the Fiat Studio can do that (and I would be shocked if they would be willing to)

EDIT: Yeah.... what he said above ^^^^

My studio tried. It didn't work.

redred
06-10-2013, 11:42 AM
My studio tried. It didn't work.

Wow... you must have a really cool studio then! I wonder why it didn't work? That's too bad.

BigDaddySRT
06-10-2013, 11:46 AM
My studio tried. It didn't work.

I have yet to meet a Studio that ever knew what they were talking about with regards to the ABARTH.

opiateESP
06-10-2013, 11:50 AM
Wow... you must have a really cool studio then! I wonder why it didn't work? That's too bad.

It's pretty simple. They don't have the ability to change the hard coded VIN on the ECU. That's why you would have to buy the ECU, BCM and one other piece (can't recall which it was) from an Abarth.

opiateESP
06-10-2013, 11:51 AM
I have yet to meet a Studio that ever knew what they were talking about with regards to the ABARTH.

That's really too bad. Most around here are the same except for the one dedicated Fiat location (no Chrysler dealership attached). They are great, knowledgeable and mod friendly.

redred
06-10-2013, 12:11 PM
It's pretty simple. They don't have the ability to change the hard coded VIN on the ECU. That's why you would have to buy the ECU, BCM and one other piece (can't recall which it was) from an Abarth.

Oh I see. They tried an existing ECU pulled from another car? That makes more sense. So who's going to be the first one to bite the bullet and spend the $450 to buy an Abarth ECU then? ;)

opiateESP
06-10-2013, 12:33 PM
Oh I see. They tried an existing ECU pulled from another car? That makes more sense. So who's going to be the first one to bite the bullet and spend the $450 to buy an Abarth ECU then? ;)

More like $1000. You need to buy all three pieces. :( I'm just going to wait for a tune. This would be gold for us 500T guys. The gains would be massive. PLUS, there is the possibility of copying the TTC software.