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johniew398
06-06-2013, 10:18 AM
I searched and couldn't find any posts related to this.

Does anyone have significant tire noise with their Abarth's? especially at lower speeds?

I'm noticing that now and didn't remember it in the first 5k miles or so.

Ryephile
06-06-2013, 10:30 AM
They're Pirelli tires, which [IMO] translates to English as Garbage. To elaborate more, high noise, odd wear patterns, short tread life, low grip, poor steering feel, and massive tramlining. Of the hundred or so different tires I've had in recent memory, the bottom of the list are curiously populated by mostly Pirelli tires.

stratofortress
06-06-2013, 11:28 AM
Yeah these suckers tramline so bad in a couple spots on the freeway it scares the hell out of me.

Can't wait to get on some decent rubber...guess I have road noise to look forward to in a couple thousand miles now too.

redred
06-06-2013, 11:38 AM
How many miles are on the tires currently?

hownowcb
06-06-2013, 12:01 PM
Thankfully, we're all entitled to our personal opinions. Tire noise is not only very subjective, it varies widely with respect to varying road surfaces, as well individual tire tread designs and manufacturers. Compared to many other vehicles, let's acknowledge that the Abarth probably has a lot less sound-absorbing material in it's construction than most other vehicles. And yet, compared to my Honda Element, my Abarth is quiet like a coffin!

If I had a minor complaint about the stock Pirellis, for the moment it would be some creepy "hunting" behavior on certain grooved concrete surfaces. And yet, my Michelin winter tires exhibited exactly the same "hunting" behavior on the exact same stretch of pavement. The groove pattern is wavy longitudinally, and the Abarth's short wheelbase is probably the largest contributing factor. I can't tell if the groove pattern is intentional or incidental, but I sure don't like it!

Maybe because I suffer from advanced age hearing loss, tire noise isn't all that annoying to me. On the other hand, I almost never listen to the in-dash entertainment -- I far prefer the full time exhaust symphony. I was next to a Ferrari at a stop sign yesterday, and I have to say that his exhaust note wasn't all that much more exotic than mine. Last week I was next to a Ferrari in Fiat Grigio, just like my Abarth! Never seen one in that color before. We exchanged knowing grins, and went on our separate ways.

Ryephile
06-06-2013, 01:56 PM
Thankfully, we're all entitled to our personal opinions. Tire noise is not only very subjective, it varies widely with respect to varying road surfaces, as well individual tire tread designs and manufacturers. Compared to many other vehicles, let's acknowledge that the Abarth probably has a lot less sound-absorbing material in it's construction than most other vehicles. And yet, compared to my Honda Element, my Abarth is quiet like a coffin!

If I had a minor complaint about the stock Pirellis, for the moment it would be some creepy "hunting" behavior on certain grooved concrete surfaces. And yet, my Michelin winter tires exhibited exactly the same "hunting" behavior on the exact same stretch of pavement. The groove pattern is wavy longitudinally, and the Abarth's short wheelbase is probably the largest contributing factor. I can't tell if the groove pattern is intentional or incidental, but I sure don't like it!.....

"Creepy hunting" is AKA tramlining (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramlining). It's not the Fiat's wheelbase, as I've driven cars and motorcycles with the same or shorter wheelbases [Miata's wheelbase is an inch less, FYI, and same wheelbase as the Lotus Elise] on the same roads that have little to no tramlining, yet the stock Pirelli's on the Abarth are absurd.

Also, just so we're on the same page, tire noise can be measured by an RTA and as such quantified as objective data.

2Cool
06-06-2013, 02:52 PM
P-zeros are pretty much the budget Pirelli, mass produced for OEMs and pretty much good at holding the car up.

They do tramline, makes me hate concrete roads as the grooves toss me about like a high wind. They also heat up and get greasy quickly with hard use.

I would recommend an alignment with your next set of tires. Stock mine varied by over .5 degrees camber and 1/8" toe side to side. Enough to cause quicker tire wear and noise.

jguerdat
06-06-2013, 03:44 PM
Autocross them and wear the edges off everything. :-)

Mr. Man
06-06-2013, 10:00 PM
If you guys can hear your tires you must not be driving fast enough :onthego:

Tweak
06-06-2013, 10:33 PM
if you guys can hear your tires you must not be driving fast enough :onthego:

what did you say???

13VaAbarth
06-08-2013, 05:39 PM
Maybe im not at tire expert or anything but having owned several different cars and being on several different car forums over the years there is a pattern most people hate the stock rubber that comes on the cars from factory. When I had my 09 cobalt ss turbo it had conti' on it and everyone on the forums hated them me they seemed fine except in the rain cause they hydroplained at hwy speed of 60mph. My Camaro ss had Pzeros from factory and everyone on Camaro5 complains about them as to people here but to me they seem fine, maybe I don't drive my car as hard as some people or track it or even drive crazy in the rain. The tires seem fine from factory handles the curves well no screaming from the tires when driving hard around off and on ramps and even mountain roads. They are good for the treadware rating I hope to get 30 to 40k miles out them. Tires seem subjective as well as everyone has a different feeling of what a car feels like.

OhioMade
06-09-2013, 12:11 AM
Yeah these suckers tramline so bad in a couple spots on the freeway it scares the hell out of me.

Can't wait to get on some decent rubber...guess I have road noise to look forward to in a couple thousand miles now too.

I had never experienced "tramlining" before, so I thought maybe there was something wrong with my Abarth...glad to see it's normal for the tires/profile. It's a weird feeling to encounter on the freeway.

Andree
06-09-2013, 01:12 AM
I had never experienced "tramlining" before, so I thought maybe there was something wrong with my Abarth...glad to see it's normal for the tires/profile. It's a weird feeling to encounter on the freeway.

Have it in my Lounge, and had it in my Honda Fit too. It makes me feel drunk...not ME, really, but that I'm driving a drunk car. The car seems to decide on it's own that it will move this way or that just a bit, and *I* didn't do it with the steering wheel. Talking to my car: "Hey, where ya going? What are ya doing?"

It's a very uncomfortable feeling because it breaks the illusion of control. When the car moves on it's own, we are not in control of it, and it should be kind of scary to most anyone. One moment driving straight and the next it seems to be moving over to the adjacent lane on it's own.

I think if tires work that way, the makers of the highway should use it to advantage that would help keep cars in their own lanes. Or at least be more careful about where the lines/grooves are going. What are those things for anyway? The road grooves?

Mr. Man
06-09-2013, 03:24 AM
You know, when u had the 16s, those tires were dead silent. Didn't make any noise when the wheels slipped a bit, and barely made any noise during a burnout. But those had no grip. Felt like I was driving on ice

jguerdat
06-09-2013, 07:11 AM
It's a very uncomfortable feeling because it breaks the illusion of control.

Interesting comment. "Control" is definitely an illusion, moreso with some drivers than others. ;)


I think if tires work that way, the makers of the highway should use it to advantage that would help keep cars in their own lanes. Or at least be more careful about where the lines/grooves are going. What are those things for anyway? The road grooves?

The purpose is for water removal. I'm sure both road surface engineers and tire manufacturers are aware of the issue and have researched it but it seems some tires (maybe just some sizes of some tires) are going to do that regardless. Perhaps it's because the number of tread grooves is more important than the spacing or tread block size is the determining factor or ... We'd need some of those guys to pitch in to know for sure. The "easy" fix is to change to a different tire or drive on roads that don't have that feature. I only have found one such area (on top of a bridge) locally so it's no really big deal for me but then I changed tires anyways.

Vaejovis carolinanus aka lowconabarth
06-09-2013, 08:16 AM
I was shocked to see P7s on the Abarth with 16s. I remember these from high school, and that was a very long time ago. There is no way these are the same design,has rubber tech not changed in 30 years. Funny thing is they are in great shape after 13.5 k and hardly worn and that is with one day at VIR. They were rotated at about 4K and again at 13K, seems that day at the track did more wear than 13K on the regular roads. For OEM I am satisfied, but will look into something different when these 2 sets are worn out at around 40Kplus. Oh yea the thread was on noise, no excessive noise to report.

Giuseppe
06-09-2013, 04:27 PM
Man, I don't know why so many people bash Pirelli. They make a great tire. All tires will wander on grooved concrete freeway sections. More so those with aggressive off-road tread patterns and those with soft compounds. As for tread life on the PZero, they are a 200 tire. They aren't made to last. People shouldn't expect more than 20,000 miles out of them although its quite possible. As for noise, Pirelli is famous for that. But the 17's are fairly quiet IMO.

I like the PZero and I will buy them when mine are due for replacement.

Dr. FIAT
06-09-2013, 10:38 PM
No tramlining on mine either, 4200 miles. I am anal about keeping the fronts at 38 and the backs at 32, however. When mine wear out, I'll probably go with the Federals- they have gotten great reviews on here.

Ryephile
06-09-2013, 10:57 PM
....s for tread life on the PZero, they are a 200 tire. They aren't made to last. People shouldn't expect more than 20,000 miles out of them although its quite possible....

200 UTQG * 7,200 / 100 = 14,400 miles expected tread life.

Source (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48)

Giuseppe
06-10-2013, 11:51 AM
200 UTQG * 7,200 / 100 = 14,400 miles expected tread life.

Source (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48)

I can't argue that from a scientific point, but I will only speak from my personal experience. What I do is slap two 0's to the end of the UTQG and that has been fairly accurate for me. I expect well over 14,400 miles out of my tires. Presently I have 10,8xx miles on my car and what I assume is more track time on these tires than anyone else on this forum (over 1,000mi). I still have approx. 5/32 remaining. I don't baby these tires either unless I am in traffic. When I get in the hills, it is 7/10ths. So based only on my experience, they are holding up very well considering the abuse I put them through.

stratofortress
06-10-2013, 12:12 PM
Man, I don't know why so many people bash Pirelli. They make a great tire. All tires will wander on grooved concrete freeway sections.Not as pronounced as the P Zeroes though. It literally feels like a huge crosswind is making the car swerve for a couple of seconds....and it's very unnerving. Nitto Invos and Hankook V12s never.did this (or if they did it was completely unnoticeable).

Correcting the tire pressures did reduce the severity of the tramlining (40 PSI all around from the showroom floor....really FIAT?).

nerdvana
06-11-2013, 04:27 PM
Also, just so we're on the same page, tire noise can be measured by an RTA and as such quantified as objective data.


I think the point was that some pitches or types of noise are more irritating than others; that would indeed be subjective.

A mosquito flying close to your ear is annoying but not terribly loud. A lower pitched sound at the same volume probably would not be as annoying.

FootScoot
06-11-2013, 11:35 PM
Normally manufacturers of vehicles use the tire that is the most economically feasible, or whoever they get the best price from. Could be Goodyear, Firestone, or Bridgestone, etc. Seeing how I only need them 4 at a time I can get whatever brand I want, of course I changed sizes from 16" to 17" and went with Yokohama S-Drives in 205/40/17. These tires are fairly quiet until I turn a corner, doesn't matter whether it's left or right I get a slight rumbling sound from them. I know the alignment is good as I had a 4 wheel done when I had my Eibach springs installed. If it's a slight turn I don't hear anything, but on tighter turns I can hear it. I figure it's normal for those particular tires. As was said in an earlier post, I'm sure the Abarth doesn't have the most soundproofing.

2Cool
06-12-2013, 04:20 PM
Pzeros sucked on the Mustang GT from '05 to present, and they suck on the Abarth. I have driven the same section of interstate on everything from the wife's Sorento with Kumhos to my GT500 on F1 Supercars, MINI Cooper S with Azenis and Kumho MXs, Genesis with Bridgestone Potenzas, and Evo VIII with Victoracers, none of them felt anywhere near as bad as the Pzeros. Not symmetrical tires, not assymetrical, not directionals, none. Only the Pzero feels like it is trying to go four directions at one time. Crap tires, heat up fast, lose grip quicker, limited feedback, and wet weather they can be dangerous.

My subjective opinion, based also on a crap ton of competitive track/autocross/fun road driving. Your mileage may vary. All driving on closed course with professional driver computer simulation. Do not try this at home kids.

DuckDodgers
06-12-2013, 08:28 PM
I'll just note that every person comparing other tires on other cars is simply guessing. Until the tires in question get tried on an Abarth, we just don't know how they react.

On that note, the stock P Zeros got very respectable ratings in Tire Rack tests and seemed to lead the other similar tires tested in most catagories. Several of those tires are suggested here. Your mileage and experience may vary.

jguerdat
06-13-2013, 08:04 AM
^ This.

It would be interesting but expensive and not worthwhile to try a different size Pirelli to see if that "fixed" the problem. Since every other size is taller, it's not worthwhile but I suspect the issue is really some sort of matching between groove size/width/spacing vs the same on the tire tread.

I'm happy to report that I notice no such tramlining on my 215/40-17 Dunlop Z2s in the same location where the Pirellis would cause the car to "wobble".

Bart
06-19-2013, 02:41 PM
Thanks to the dealer's ineptitude, the fronts were at 32lbs instead of the factory recommended 38lbs for quite a while on my wife's Abarth. It wasn't until the low pressure warning came up, a day after service, no less, that I realized they weren't keeping them at the correct pressure. They ended up cupping and now they have a lot of road noise.

And just over the weekend, I found a sidewall bulge on one of them. Was gonna ride the noise out until they were worn out, but I'll have to replace sooner now.

RickJ
07-21-2013, 06:30 PM
Yeah, I got that (tire whine) - now at 12K miles / seems like it became noticable in the past month or two..also 'tramlining' is noticeable - just did a short drive over grooved cement and my seatmate asked what was going on (doesn't notice the effect in her car - a 2006 Chevy HHR....)
.
RickJ